Underdrain System

SEE TERMS OF USE.THIS CONTENT IS PLACED HERE FOR MEMBER INFORMATION AND TO RECORD THE RESEARCH AND DISCUSSION THAT HAS BEEN TAKING PLACE REGARDING THIS FRENCH DRAIN / UNDERDRAIN SYSTEM.

underdrain sketch Underdrain - Un”der*drain`\, n. An underground drain or trench with openings through which the water may percolate from the soil or ground above. A drain, installed in porous fill, for drawing off surface water or water from the soil, as under the slab of a structure.
Utah Department of Environmental Quality
Bioretention.com - underdrain systems
http://www.cee.vt.edu/ewr/environmental/teach/wtprimer/underdrn/underdrain.html
1981 Letter from the Silver Springs Developer’s Attorney regarding the Water System Development, Lakes and Lands Surrounding Lakes and Water Courses “Each Builder is responsible for construction of the system from the property line to each common area [roadway], residential or unit point of use. Each builder is also responsible for the portion of common main lines across his property to other private properties as required by the consortium master plan for the systems.” This quote supports what our 1985 CC&R’s and all subsequent Amendments stating that each individual homeowner is responsible for all infrastructures within their property lines and easements except those belonging to a public utility company. The SSSFHOA does not own the incomplete underdrain system as it was installed on private property.
Document History regarding Silver Springs Underdrain System
Amended Declaration of CC&Rs Entry 244975 Book M370 Pages 267-275. Signed by Silver Springs Board of Trustees: Bill Ligety, Dale Boschetto, Ron Kobler, Lucy Murphy (Archer), Fred Wasilewski, Gregory Vinson, Elmer “Buz” Sandberg and approved by a majority of the Association Members.”All [former] Declarations relating to the Silver Springs Development Subdivision were repealed” All references and responsibilities by the HOA for the underdrain system were therefore repealed. The 1978 underdrain system and irrigation system were abandoned by a majority vote of the Association. The Subdivision has a storm drain system, sewer system, and ditches as conduits used to collect seasonal flowing water and snow melt. CCRs state that each individual homeowner is responsible for their own irrigation and anything within their property lines and easements. None of the contiguous subdivisions to Silver Springs have this type of underdrain system.  See reasons stated below.

1979 Underdrain diagram
Diagram from original 1979 Silver Springs Underdrain plans
with a 4 ft wide drain across the length of each residential lot

Concerns have been voiced that the placement of an underdrain system along easements on Member yards could produce summer irrigation problems. Water distributed and sprayed for the benefit of trees, shrubs, and lawns will very likely be percolated or removed away from the vegetation for which it is intended by an underground installed underdrain/French drain system. Now that we are in the eighth year of drought, potential loss of vegetation and hampered beneficial irrigation is a viable concern. See Comments at February 2, 2009

It is important to sum up how many Silver Springs properties are affected, whether individual sump pumps are an appropriate remedy, how much personal property in the form of fences, patios, sheds, trees, gardens, driveways, etc. would be negatively affected by the “roto-rooting” exploration and at what expense to the individual homeowner, the Association, and the perceived re-sale image of our neighborhood. One of the voiced concerns is that if we proceed to tear into properties because of water related issues we could become a stigmatized neighborhood such as Propector was affected. The benefit to a few does not warrant the cost to the many.

Also it is important to consider the economic times we are experiencing, is it prudent to create more expenses for work that is clearly not a benefit to the Association at large; we have the most expensive water in the state via Mountain Regional, and if global warming-summer drought conditions persist do we really want an underdrain system to draw away the water from our yards, plantings, and properties that we are dearly paying for? Do we want to re-landscape and repair fences, etc.

Opinion: properties that are built on or close to artesian wells will not benefit from an underdrain in someone else’s yard. A sump pump on the individual property affected by seasonal flow is a better solution.

Fact: Ground water and seasonal melt off flow on subdivision lots is the responsibility of the individual property owner. See at Article IX of the CC&Rs. Section 3 . Easements.
Our contiguous subdivisions do not have underdrain systems, they rely on the storm drains, the creek inlets and outlets to channel the overflow into the creeks and retention ponds, on out of our subdivision.

1986 - or thereabouts…John and Bonnie Adams had a stream and flooding, in the 1980’s or early 1990’s, in-between their two lots, 116 and 124 coming from the direction of Lot 113. The area behind their back deck was seasonally flooded for a number of years. Mike Broome said that the Adams told him that when Sun Peak began to be built the flooding stopped….Randy Spagnoletti witnessed various artesian springs in our area. Randy remembers that when a builder, thinks his name was Ron Sturgis, was digging the foundations for some homes along the west side of East Meadows Drive, that he uncovered an artesian well. Randy said that Sturgis just covered up the well and built over the top of it. He thought that the artesian well might be under Lot 65 and/or Lot 57. That might explain why they are experiencing seasonal water in their crawlspace when most of the other properties are not. As the ground water rises it pushes up through the mouth of the well. We know that when Silver Willow Lake was drained in 2005 there were identified eight to twelve artesian wells on the 20 acres that the lake occupies that had not been identified until the lakes were dredged in 1980-1981 or so. The water table is high in Silver Springs, we do not know all the locations or how many other artesian springs or wells are under our community….

artesian spring sketch

Around 1987 James Wickerink built a spec home on Lot 27, it is believed that lot experiences seasonal high water issues in the crawlspace….

Chris Butler said that when he bought Lot 170 from Scott Lundberg in December of 2004, that he had to add a sump pump in the crawlspace of that property. The sump pump takes care of any moisture accumulation under there, which seems to be seasonal. Chris moved from Lot 168 where he had no moisture issues at all….

Real estate agents have reported that the basement on Lot 86 was flooded while the house was on the market sometime between 2002 and 2008. One agent said, that while he was showing the property to perspective buyers, he stepped into knee-high water when he walked down the stairs into the basement ….

2007

In April of 2007, Michael Winer, owner of Lot 42, experienced water back-up and standing water in his yard. Skip Domenick, SS Board president approved an invoice from Marquis Construction on May 14, 2007 for $12,500. to clear the storm drain and raise one or two manhole caps and covers. Another company was hired to complete the work. Discussion has posed the question whether draining of the Lower Pond in 2005 and 2006 contributed to the storm drain becoming clogged. Though the Board has been mum regarding this work, it should be noted that on the October 23, 2007 Annual Meeting report there is the following entry: “Ground Water Drainage System –One access point was buried in Silver Springs Road and was reconstructed to allow access for cleaning. Actual Cost $2,550.” Also the 2007 SSHOA Budget YTD OCT lists “Drainage….Expenses…$2,550″

On May 21, 2007 Skip told the Master Association Board that the “estimate is that it will be about $12,000.00. Skip said that SSSFHOA is short of about 2,500.00. SSSFHOA asked the Masters to make up the shorted amount.” (See Silver Springs MAHOA Minutes for May 21, 2007.)
The June 18, 2007 Master Association Minutes say that “Jerry [Romero] said that he would talk with Skip to return the money to the masters. SSSFHOA had the drainage issue worked out for far less than they expected.” The Expense-Miscellaneous $2,500.00 item was on the MA Budget as an expenditure through the November 2007 Profit and Loss Statement, so SSSFHOA might have paid them back for the work on and adjacent to Lot 42.

(Will look for more Budget info)…

May 2008

Bill Noland, Lot 27, approached the Silver Springs Board of Trustees again regarding water issues he, Skip Domenick, Lot 65, and a couple other neighbors, Lots 57, and 104, have been experiencing in the last three or four years with surface and ground water accumulation from the spring run-off, possible artesian activity, and the way the storm drains, sewer, and the 1979-1985 abandoned underdrain system were, or were not, handling it. Bill said he had to replace his water heater twice that was in his crawlspace and had to run a sump pump. Skip said he too had to divert water and run a sump pump. A couple other neighbors had to do the same. A year or two before, a homeowner at Lot 42 had to have his drain cleaned out because water was backing up in his yard. The HOA worked on the drain and paid for the work that needed to be done. At this point Skip began to assess the extend of our sewer, storm drains, fire hydrants, and defunct French drains. Bill N., Skip, Patrick Brennan, and a couple other men performed a survey and located as many man-holes as they could find, some were under layers of asphalt or under landscaping, some were not found.

Skip Domeick and Bill Noland produced a report that gave the following information: (Presented to the Board on 6/5/2008)

SILVER SPRINGS SF HOA GROUND WATER UNDER DRAIN (SUBSURFACE) SYSTEM

What / Where it is?

  • pipe was laid in 1978-1979 in 8′-10′ deep trenches
  • 6″-10″ corrugated, flexible, French drain pipe was used for the underdrains
  • 3 1/2′ w X 8-12′ d access/junction manholes were set
  • these pipes were laid in Silver Springs Phase 1-A and 1-B
  • the system appears to drain into Willow Creek (east side of Sil.Sprgs)

When the early developers recorded the first Silver Springs plats they were required by Summit County to install an infrastructure which included utilities and water systems, one being French drains to protect the infrastructure and future homes from the subsurface high water table and seasonal surface run-off from snow melt and “transient” flow from higher elevations. The developer/HOA president was bonded for 3 years, the County returned his bond to him to further develop Silver Springs and allowed him to transfer his requirements and responsibilities to the HOA as he was also the HOA president and could sign off on the agreement.

Problem HIstory:

  • Unknown until 4 years ago. Anecdotal evidence of some random property and crawlspace water, could be drains.
  • Significant crawlspace water in lots along East Meadows Drive; some property line drainage at Silver Springs Road and Lake Front Court was repaired last year.
  • Research “rediscovers” existence of underdrain system.
  • Commercial Roto Router clears significant root invasion into drain pipes. This service results in crawl space water receding, property line drainage stops.
  • Unable to reach entire part of system behind East Meadows Drive. (SLS-Phase 1-B).
  • Periodic clearing seemed to work until this 2008 spring when significant ground water returned to the lots along East Meadows Drive.

What we know:

  • Where immediate problems have surfaced and recurred.
  • The system underlies the entire subdivision. Sketchy proposal maps were located at Jack J. Johnson Engineering, the original design company in 1978. The County did not keep any record of the maps or the system.
  • No system maintenance has been performed from inception in 1978 until 2004.
  • There is potential for water drainage problems if the storm drains and sewer lines are over full and there is not a third system to back them up. The third system is the underdrain system. It is being proposed that it be located, inspected, cleared, repaired if necessary, and maintained in the future;
  • Summit County denies ownership or responsibility of the underdrain system but do acknowledge ownership of storm drain system.
  • Silver Springs CC&Rs state that individual lot owners are responsible for utility lines, etc. within the easements on their lots.
  • There is no “developer” to consult or gain help from.

What we don’t know:

  • Effectiveness of repairs or clean out of system; is it truly a system problem.
  • Who legally owns the system? HOA? Individual homeowner? Abandoned? Deeded over? Voted in 1985 by HOA Membership to abandon it.
  • Documentation is sketchy, incomplete, descretionary, missing?
  • Is water in crawl spaces a result of pipe obstructions, over-capacity, other water moving through the ground, artesian springs, or a combination.
  • Extent of subsurface water invasion into other properties within Silver Springs. A survey is being planned to plot if other homesites being affected. Six or more?
  • Health of system - it is 30 years old and never before inspected or maintained.
  • Condition of pipes - root obstructions, or ground shift or collapse of pipes
  • Where most lines and man holes are located, some are paved over or have landscape growing over them as it is an abandoned, unneeded system.
  • Proposal maps do not seem to represent “ground truth” location of system.

What this could mean for the SSSFHOA:

  • Potential for future system related problems during spring run-off season.
  • If it is decreed that the SSSFHOA owns the underdrain system the costs for repair would include private property removal of trees, shrubs, fences, sheds, landscaping. After 30 years do we really need this system? Who benefits?
  • Future maintenance could continue to impose on private property. No need.
  • Would the SSSFHOA be legally liable for damage from water run-off due to system defects should a neighbor decide to sue for damages. How would the court rule? Other subdivisions do not have this system nor quandry. This is a “What if the sky begins to fall?” question. Our CC&Rs clearly state each Member is responsible for their individual parcels.
  • How can the cause of seasonal, unforeseeable, and unanticipated excessive water flow on a neighborhood property be assigned to a ‘failure’ of an abandoned 30 year old underdrain system? It can’t.

What we need to do:

  • Have requested HOA attorney to determine if SSSFHOA legally owns the underdrain system. The board has not shared this opinion letter.
  • Determine if the County holds some responsibility. They do not.
  • If SSSFHOA owns and is legally responsible for the system then obtain legal release from homeowners for liability. No one owns it, it has gone back to nature.
  • Clear and clean out the streams, creeks, inlets, outlets, and storm drains.
  • If the SSSFHOA owns the system obtain insurance for liability. No need.
  • Survey residents to get a picture of where else there is a problem (if any). How many are using sump pumps effectively. Survey was taken, no results have been shared by the board.
  • Obtain bids and proposals for solution from companies like Geotechnical Company to commence clean-out of lines, replacement of collapsed pipes (if any), location of “lost” manholes and pipes, etc. Great cost benefits half dozen. How can they ask their neighbors to tear up their yards and pay thousands of dollars on the chance it might help a very few? There are other options.
  • Inform General Membership and obtain input, if needed take a vote.

Results of preliminary contact with two geotech firms:

  • Clear out fall restriction and back pressure Willow Creek (storm drains?)
  • Work upstream from out fall to determine viability of existing system by roto-routing and send a snake camera to the pipes; possible backhoe work. Cost greatly out weighs value to Association Members.
  • Only when system integrity is verified can it be determined if overcapacity or other circumstances are causing the water to enter the crawl space of some (6)homes.
  • Are there other causes for seasonal ground water issues; artesian springs are known to exist (around 15-18 under the 20 acre lake); will sump pumps in crawl spaces with problems take care of the problems. Have been since 1982 on the years of extra flow.

DECISION:

  • Do we pursue legal definition of “Ownership”. No!
  • What will be the costs of legal counsel, court fight, presumed damage to a few homeowners properties.
  • What if work results in unwarranted necessity? What is homeowner sues HOA for excavation damage to his yard, fence, trees, etc.?
  • Pandora box - could stigmatize neighborhood like lead at Prospector.
  • Appoint an “Underdrain Committee” to work under the direction of the HOA. This was done during the summer of 2008.
    Bill Noland has continued his investigation of the underdrain system.  Webmaster offered to post his latest finding on this site.  When the revised information is submitted it will be posted.
  • WHAT IS RECORDED IN OUR HOA DOCS…….
  • 1982 Amendment to the Amended Declaration Entry 193368 Book M 225 Pages 194-197
  • 1994 Amended CCRs any reference to the underdrain system was not included as the majority of the Association members voted to abandon it. In ensuing recorded HOA docs the underdrain system has remained unincluded.
  • If you want to verify the above listed documents for yourself here are the instructions for finding them on the Summit County Website:

    Go to http://www.co.summit.ut.us/
    Look for the orange menu bar at the top of the page.
    Click on PUBLIC RECORDS. That will produce a drop-down menu.
    From this menu click on Eagle Web (Property).
    From this page click on PUBLIC LOG-IN
    Look for the black menu bar on the top of the page.
    Click on DOCUMENT SEARCH
    In the center of the page, the first black menu bar has ENTRY NUMBER Ex: 00221234
    In the box provided enter the ENTRY NUMBER from the Chart above for the document you are seeking.
    The .PDF file of the recorded document will come up for viewing or printing or saving to your computer.

WHAT EVIDENCE EXISTS REGARDING THE UNDERDRAIN SYSTEM?

  • Silver Springs 1A UNDERDRAIN SYSTEM & CHANNEL RELOCATION drawing for Silver Springs Development, Inc. on 5/30/1979 by Lon Stalsberg and Jeff Graham of the J.J. Johnson & Associates Enginering Co. designating the rendering “AS BUILT” Numbered 3A of 21.

    Underdrain System - 1979 As Built for SS-1A
    Five homes would be impacted on front and backyards.
    http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/ss1a-underdrain-system-1979as-built.jpg

  • Silver Springs 1B Underdrain System & Channel Relocation Numbered 3b of 30, signed by Lon Stalsberg. This rendering numbers the lots differently than the recorded plat.

Underdrain System - 1979 Proposed for SS-1B
Darker lines represent where the Underdrain system is thought to be.
The dark lines also represent where the digging would be done.
http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/ss1b-underdrain-system-1979proposed.jpg

See Silver Springs HOA Board Meeting Minutes for June 5, 2008

UNDERDRAIN SYSTEM: First order of business was the French drain or underdrain system built in 1979 or so in Silver Springs Phases 1A and possibly 1B. Skip Domenick and Bill Noland have been actively monitoring, repairing, and researching this system since their properties are among the few affected by ground water issues. The particular reason for their concern this year is that a number of lots along E. Meadows Drive have been experiencing high water conditions. (Lots 27, 57, 65, 104, 105) A number of the residents have installed sump pumps and have been running them for a couple weeks. This condition does not occur every year. Skip and Bill have discovered that in May of 1979 the J..J.Johnson Company drew up maps for an underdrain system that was to be installed prior to the development of Silver Springs. The system lies in 8’ to 10’ deep trenches, fitted with 6”-10” corrugated, flexible perforated pipe. The pipe collects water that drains into Willow Creek. There are a number of manhole covers at access and junction points. Bill has located most of these manholes with the assistance of a 1979 parcel map produced by J.J.Johnson Engineering, but a couple access points (Lot 106) are still uncovered, though the storm drain has been found and contains 3’-4’ of water in the pipes.Silver Springs Communities area is well known as a high water table area. Summit County was aware of this when the subdivision was approved. S.C. bonded the developer for 3 years. The complete history and current ownership of this system is being researched to determine who legally owns it today and who has the responsibility for its recovery and maintenance. [This is an abandoned system that existed from 1979-1985. No other subdivision in our area has an underdrain system.] There is also a need to know where the S.C. owned surface storm drain lines run in correlation to the ‘orphaned” sub-surface underdrain system. The question of what is to be done by the HOA is unclear. It was agreed that as individuals the group of affected homeowners should continue to directly address the water table issues on specific affected lots. It was further agreed that the HOA may not be required to assist until a professional legal opinion can be established stating who currently owns the underdrain system.

Bill Noland read from Article IX of the CC&Rs. Section 3 . Easements or installation and maintenance of utilities and drainage facilities are reserved as shown on the recorded Plat and over the rear and side five feet of each lot. Within these easements, no structure, planting or other materials shall be placed or permitted to remain which may damage or interfere with the installation and maintenance of utilities, or which may change the direction of flow of drainage channels in the easements or which may obstruct or retard the flow of water through drainage channels in the easements. The easement area of each lot and all improvements in it shall be maintained continuously by the owner of the lot, except for those improvements for which a public authority or utility company is responsible.

Bill made the point that the last line stating that each lot owner is responsible for those improvements on his lot for which a public authority or utility company is responsible is the crux of his query and investigation. The HOA needs to determine who owns the elusive underdrain system. Is it the original developer, the subsequent partners and developers, the water companies, Summit County or the SSHOA or the MAHOA?On June 25, 1982 the SSHOA president/developer Raymond D. Fry – RDF Associates, Inc.- and Summit County signed and recorded an Agreement whereby the president of the SSHOA agreed that:“Association is and shall be solely responsible for maintaining the underdrain system in Silver Springs Subdivision Phases 1A and 1B, and such future phases of such subdivision as may be approved by Summit County thereafter.”

This agreement then provided:3. Release. Subject to any other conditions of such bond, County hereby agrees to release $150,000. of the escrow being held by American Savings & Loan Association, which represents that portion of the bond designated for completion of the underdrain system in Phases 1A and 1B.The three words added to CC&R’s Article VIII Section 1 (a) “the underdrain system” first appear on July 6, 1982 recording of the Amendment to Amended Declaration of CC&Rs for S.S. Development which was filed right after (pages 194-197] the above Agreement. The three words are then deleted in the February 8, 1993 Amendment and all subsequent amendments. So what happened in 1993? This could be a good place to begin our research. The HOA also needs to know the extent of the underdrain/French drain system; is it under Phases A thru E or only under Phases 1A & /or 1B. What is the overall health of the existing system? Who is the true current owner?The Board agreed that Bill Noland should head up an Underdrain Research Committee to find all documentation, to present to our attorney Lincoln Hobbs, so that he can provide us with a defensible legal opinion as to the present ownership of the underdrain system to determine who is responsible for its maintenance and repair before the Board can commit to the enormous financial resources to trace, repair, and possibly expand such a system. The Board’s primary concern is its duty to represent the interests, as well as the fiduciary obligations, of the all the SSSFHOA membership. Bill was advised to begin with the SSHOA website pages on the History of Silver Springs http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/history/ and http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/hoa-docs/1982-agreement-rdf-and-summit-county/
Also the Waterways pages at http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/waterways/ and http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/waterways/lower-pond-plat/ and all HOA documents which are now fully searchable, at http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/hoa-docs/ These pages contain names, companies, dates, documents, and events that may assist Bill and his committee in continuing their research. We are trying to sort out and document the separate water systems in Silver Springs. There is a large pump house next to the basketball court at the Park that was to be the main source of the S.S. irrigation system. The irrigation pipes run along the rear of the lots but we don’t know in what Phases.Then there is the culinary water system, owned? by Mountain Regional. Would like to have a plat map of that system and docs.Then there is the storm drain system owned by Summit County that is to be maintained by Summit County. Need much more info on that. So we do need a committee to sort all this out. Matt Lindon 655-0269 and ______ were on the committee before and must have lots of info.

Then there are the waterways (streams, creeks, retention ponds, artesian wells, lakes, etc.) that need documentation. Photographs of most of the sections have been taken by Lucy and are linked to the chart document on-line.

artesian well sketch

July 10, 2008 SSSFHOA Board Meeting - Agenda Item 7:
Michael Winer had to leave so the meeting was adjourned. The remaining Board members and general members remained to discuss the Underdrain System.-UnderDrain System: Bill Noland stayed to answer Board questions regarding the underdrain system. Sue Pollard, Clay Archer, Lucy Archer, Lyn Cier remained until 9:30 p.m. to review Bill’s findings. Bill has learned much about French drains, drainage, water issues, location of pipes and caps, wells, and many other like subjects. Sue stated that she was sorry that five or six homeowners in Silver Springs out of 188, were having seasonal high water issues, mostly in recent years, but she felt that did not justify tearing up fences, trees, landscaping, other private property to find the underdrains and repair them. The group agreed this could really get out of control and Silver Springs could become stigmatized. Clay said that the system had been put in the ground in 1978 or 1979 and had been completely abandoned for thirty years. Though the system may still be healthy in some areas it may be mostly absorbed by nature in other areas. Bill said that the drainage routes, ground table levels, and run-off were evidently changing as construction at the Canyons and other areas changed and snowfall fluctuated. He is finding that plats of underground systems and ground truth location of these systems are not always in sync.We agreed that recorded documents and the lack of verbiage on the recorded plats place the responsibly on the individual owners for surface water and easement issues. (see 1982 CCRs Article IX Easements: “Section. 1. The rights and duties of the owners of lots within the properties with respect to sanitary sewer and water, electricity, solar heating systems, gas, telephone, and Cable Television lines and drainage facilities shall be governed by the following:… The easement area of each lot and all improvements in it shall be maintained continuously by the owner of the lot, except for those improvements for which a public authority or utility company is responsible.”We agreed that it would be better for five or six owners to buy sump pumps than to get into what might become a multi-million dollar tear up of the Phase 1B neighborhood. We speculated that the damage to trees, property, subdivision reputation, would greatly exceed the expected benefits.1982 CCRs Article VIII Section 1 Duties and Powers of the Association states:”(a) Own, and/or maintain and otherwise manage all of the common areas and all facilities, improvements and landscaping thereon, including but not limited to the private streets and street fixtures, the underdrain system, and all other property acquired by the Association. There is also a 1982 recorded Agreement Between Ray Fry and Summit County.: This agreement is binding on successors but there is a question whether our 1987 re-organized HOA is considered a successor of Ray Fry the Developer and Ray Fry the HOA President of this agreement. All future recorded CCRs do not mention the underdrain system. In our 1994 CCRs Article IX, Section 3. states that all easements for installation and maintenance of utilities and drainage facilities are reserved as shown on the recorded Plat and over the rear and side five feet of each lot…..The easement area of each lot and all improvements in it shall be maintained continuously by the owner of the lot, except for those improvements for which a public authority or utility company is responsible.This would include the abandoned underdrain system. However, no recent recorded documents mention the underdrain system or who is responsible for it.S ue voiced her concern that if Bill has a personal interest in the underdrain system (water in his crawlspace and replaced two water heaters) and he is the one presenting the issue to the Board’s legal counsel, then that could be interpreted as a conflict of interest when Bill and counsel then advise the Board on defining the Board’s responsibility for the underdrain system. We all agreed that someone else on the Board needed to contact Lincoln and give him another Board member perspective.At the end of the meeting Board members left concerned that more damage could be done than was advisable and that the handful of property owners that were having seasonal high water needed to deal with it on an individual basis.

NOTE FROM A NEIGHBOR

We understand that Bill is looking at the underdrain system from an engineer’s point of view, and subsequently wants to fix the system to a healthy, all encompassing condition. We feel that the system being abandoned for thirty years belongs to no one, and therefore no person or entity is responsible for its condition or function. The system has undoubtedly sections that have collapsed, filled with roots, or clogged with sediment which in effect has reverted a portion of it to a natural state and may be considered no longer to exist as an underdrain. Therefore, we feel that any spring flooding that may occur has been due to nature not the system.

We understand that the water table and the drainage paths, along with known underground springs in our area, have been migrating and changing over the years. This further supports our feeling that the underdrain system may or may not have the overall detrimental effect that supports the extent of work Bill is suggesting. We feel that the damage to personal property and to the public perception of Silver Springs Communities would exceed the benefit of repairing this abandoned system.

The issues that Bill and Skip and a few of their neighbors are having is from surface water not underground water, which we realize that one can precipitate the other. We believe that surface water is the responsibility of the individual homeowner, who can install a sump pump for use during the one or two weeks of spring melt and run-off during the recent years..

Additionally, we feel that the recorded documents that explain the underdrain system ownership and responsibilty are inconclusive and actually lay the ownership to each lot owner. The appearance and disappearance of the words “underdrain system” from various documents (most of which are unrecorded) is puzzling as we do not know why these actions were taken. We are interested to read whatever minutes or documents you have that will clarify this situation.

Michael Winer has repeatedly instructed secretary/webmaster Lucy Archer to not include anything about the underdrain system in the monthly newsletter. At one point a short survey was to be included in the newsletter. The survey was to ask Members if they had ground water problems in their crawlspaces or basements, and whether seasonal water gathered in their yards. Also how long they have lived in their homes, and how many years, if any, have they experienced ground and run-off water issues. Bill and Michael then decided not to do a survey and to continue to keep the topic “under wraps for now”.
August 2008: Suspicions have arisen regarding the motives of a few Association board members because they have not openly discussed their actions to re-establish the defunct and abandoned underdrain system and they have not openly presented their plans with the Association Members or other members of the board.
September 15, 2008: Michael Winer was in receipt of attorney Lincoln Hobbs opinion letter regarding the ownership and status of the underdrain system. Winer has not shared its contents with the SSSFHOA Board.

September 22, 2008: Bill Noland and Michael Winer presented to the Master Association board the underdrain system report and a letter regarding this system written from attorney Lincoln Hobbs though that Board has nothing to do with any underdrains. Hobbs letter cost the SSSFHOA $2,000 but Winer and Noland are keeping its contents under wraps, even other board members have not had access to its contents.
October 1, 2008: When producing the newsletter a survey was to be included. The newsletter editor was told by the board to delete any reference to the underdrain system. “It will be a Pandora’s box, if homeowners find out what the cost and implications could be if the work is authorized and commenced.”
October 13, 2008: Annual Association Meeting. Attended by 64-75 Association members. Bill Noland and the underdrain system were listed as Item VII on Sue Pollard’s ambush agenda. When Bill was given the floor he addressed the attendees and said he was not prepared to present his study of the system to the assembled members. Bill told the group that if they wanted information, or updated information from what is on this web page, to give him a call.
2009 - February 9 - Board meeting minutes:-Underdrain Report. Bill Noland explained the 1978-1979 SSSFHOA French drain/underdrain system. Noland distributed a thick sheaf report to each of the board members. The information received was for information purposes only. Discussion and
decision-making to be at a subsequent meeting.Describing the underdrain network from its installation in 1979 until the present, Mr. Noland explained the underground system, consisting of buried lines of perforated PVC pipe, met Summit County Commission requirements for managing a high water table known to exist when what became SSSF subdivision received development authorization.
It collected ground water delivering it to an outflow point. Summit County officials and
the subdivision developer signed a letter in 1982 assigning the underdrain responsibility
to the SSSFHOA, Noland said. [In October of 1985 the SSSFHOA at a General Association Meeting, the board and members voted to abandon the irrigation system and the underdrain system. This was done for reasons listed below*, and by removal of the verbiage referring to these systems
from the new Amended Declaration of CCRs Entry 244975, Book M370, Pages 267-275,
and by including the statement on CCRs Page 273: “All [prior] Declarations relating to the
Silver Springs Development Subdivision were repealed”] However, when the Masters Association was formed in 1989, gaining control over maintenance of “common areas”, Noland assumed this would have included the underdrain system, but, Noland said, there are no Masters Association records verifying this as the underdrain is located within Silver Springs Single Family subdivision Phases A & B and within individually owned properties therefore not definable as “common
area” but instead as “private property.”During 1993-1994 written responsibility for underdrain system “maintenance” was
worked out by the presiding board in various CCRs draft documents referencing the
underdrain then again removing any reference to the underdrain system. The ending
document that was approved by the Association on November 17, 1994 and was recorded
at Entry # 419440, Book M851, Pages 334-339, has no reference to any responsibility to
an underdrain system by the Association, supporting the 1985 Association vote to
abandon the system. No subsequent HOA documents include any reference to the
underdrain system which has been abandoned by the Association as defunct, and we
imagine the system has for a great part returned to nature.Although Summit County government did correct at least one water seep problem attributed to underdrain failure (in conjunction with the storm drain?), Summit County officials consistently deny responsibility for “maintaining” the abandoned underdrainage network. The SSSFHOA has done the same, Noland said. Noland feels this has now caused a serious impasse, he added, since water entering home crawl space –such as his
and maybe three or four others –, yards and driveways have disclosed the system has
been invaded at various places by tree roots, other “organic matter,” possible collapses
and displacements, turning it, at times during spring run-off, and at certain spots, from a
collection and outflow system to a distribution system gathered on a number of
subdivision lots. In the spring the sewer system and the storm drain system can become
clogged or over burdened. Willow Creek has been known to overflow and the storm
drains provided for this increase in seasonal flow need to be monitored to clear debris and
branches from hampering proper drainage.Who, then, Noland stressed, is responsible for determining the potential for water seepage difficulties, meeting them and dealing with them when actual damages and threatened damages appear? Noland suggested three options –
-1. The SSSFHOA can be petitioned to take ultimate responsibility. [See above for Oct.
1985 an November 1994 Association votes.]
-2. Petition the Masters Association to take responsibility. [Highly unlikely to occur as it
is not part of their charter and other Silver Springs Member Subdivisions have petitioned
and been turned down for similar work.]
-3. “Wait until someone sues over damage and an eventual court decision assigns
responsibility.” [The responsibility is already assigned, the SSSFHOA CCRs state in
Article IX Easements: “Section. 1. The rights and duties of the owners of lots within the properties with respect to sanitary sewer and water, electricity, solar heating systems, gas, telephone, and Cable Television lines and drainage facilities shall be governed by the following:… The easement area of each lot and all improvements in it shall be maintained continuously by the owner of the lot, except for those improvements for which a public authority or utility company is responsible.”
See http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/utilities/water/underdrain-system/ for more information.]Noland suggested reasons for the homeowners to deny responsibility would be to avoid
maintenance costs, to conserve irrigation water to lawns, trees, gardens within each lot, to
avoid costly intrusion by roto-rooting and damage to private property; while reasons for
accepting the responsibility include protecting an undetermined number of homeowners
from costly damages [which are actually owner responsibilities], and simply assuring
control over the abandoned system. The Association would then be presented with further
questions about how to proceed, including fixing problems when they occur or finding
impending failures and “roto-rooting” them out or devising a system wide plan for
preventing problems before they arise. As current Master HOA president he guessed
petitioning that board would be futile. He observed that getting general approval for the
SSSFHOA to accept full responsibility could be complicated by the fact that not every lot
in the subdivision is directly on the system’s route and some lots are affected in the front
and backyards.However, former SSSFHOA President Skip Domenic, who is also experiencing spring
runoff issues and his property may be on an artesian spring, pointed out that when the
system starts distributing instead of collecting water – especially during spring’s heavy
runoff period – it could easily spread beyond the system’s line, threatening property just
about anywhere. During general discussion, it was suggested “maintenance,” mentioned
in documented language about the system should be better defined; and that a “survey of
members” to determine who is or is not affected could help determine how serious and
wide cast the problem really is. In Noland’s final analysis, the board of trustees, is
obliged to draft a homeowners membership plan for meeting the problem. Most
homeowners are already aware if there are runoff issues associated with their own
properties. The suggested movement of this size and scope would need to be approved
by a majority vote by the entire Association Membership before it can be implemented.
Attendees were impressed with Mr. Noland’s substantial work compiling the underdrain
report. It was generally discussed that a survey of our property owners is necessary to
determine if more than four or five properties are being affected by spring runoff, artesian
springs, artesian wells, etc.*It is important to sum up how many Silver Springs properties are affected, whether
individual sump pumps are an appropriate remedy, how much personal property in the
form of fences, patios, sheds, trees, gardens, driveways, etc. would be negatively affected
by the “roto-rooting”, and whether a dead zone of irrigation would occur along the
proposed areas. It is also important to consider that in these years of drought the effect of
a water collection or underdrain system will leach your irrigation water away from the
lawn and garden areas contiguous to and under the underdrain system. The few
homeowners who are experiencing runoff in their yards and water in their crawlspaces
seem to occur in the spring, whereas the revival of the underdrain would leach water from
homeowner properties 365 days of the year. Also it is important to consider the economic
times, is it prudent to create more expenses for work that is clearly not a benefit to the
Association at large?
2009, February 10 - Board meeting minutes:”Community Underdrain Survey. Distributing a draft survey questionnaire asking homeowners members about past and present underground water problems on their properties, the information gathered would further inform the board as to the under-drain condition and its potential for causing seepage damages. With such information, he said, the board would be better positioned to confront the under-drain system’s already identified failures. [in conjunction with storm drain issues]
During discussion it was emphasized survey results would be kept confidential and the survey would be distributed by mail.

March 17, 2009: The Association Members received a Drainage Survey.
Results unknown.
2009, April 22: Board Meeting minutes:
Ground Water Survey - Bill N presented the ground water survey results. Approximately 100 responses were received. The survey confirmed some known trouble spots and also created some watch areas that may need to be addressed in the future.

2009, May 27 - Board meeting minutes:Underdrain Committee – There were no volunteers for the underdrain committee. Currently the committee consists of Bill N and Bill G. An underdrain sight-seeing tour will be held Saturday, May 30th at 11:00am for Board members to learn more about the problem areas of the underdrain system.
[Storm Drain]/ Underdrain System - Willow creek is running at it highest level for 2009. No significant back-ups have been found or reported since the last Board meeting. Skip Dominick is having some back-up but it was reported that the level of back-up is nowhere near last year’s levels. Maintenance of the system will be scheduled for October when water levels are the lowest. Currently scheduled maintenance projects include repairing the main outlet near Willow Creek and possibly excavating a portion the system between Willow Loop and East Meadows Drive where an apparent obstruction is causing an up gradient backup.
A discussion took place about whether the SSHOA should pay for private party issues. For example, if the underdrain committee recommends removing trees in certain areas to protect the integrity of underdrain system and the homeowner refuses – how should this be handled? Can the homeowner pay for yearly maintenance of the line in their yard and keep the trees? The Board agreed that this should be a general membership decision.
2009, September 16 - Water firm wins big tax appeal, Burden could shift to Summit Water’s ratepayer’s

2009 - September 16 - The SSSFHOA trustees held an “emergency” meeting attended by Noland, Gunter, and two other trustees.  The purpose of today’s meeting was to get a quick vote to spend $5,000 from the HOA budget for Noland’s requested “cleaning” and inspection work. This action runs contrary to the Association Member vote to abandon this system and any further work on it as its benefits are questionable. Concerns have been voiced that the placement of an underdrain system along easements on Member yards could produce summer irrigation problems. Within the parameters of an underdrain system water distributed by homeowners, sprayed for the benefit of trees, shrubs, and lawns will very likely be percolated or removed away from the vegetation for which it is intended. Drought and global warming produce potential loss of vegetation and hamper beneficial irrigation. See Comments at February 2, 2009.
2009, October 13 - Noland was not re-elected to the board as he did not place his name on the ballot.  Perhaps now that he has achieved his purposes he does not feel a need to continue his “investigation” on the underdrain system nor to serve on the HOA boards.
2010, December 4 - Water and the Quality of Life - Part 1 of 3 - by Matt Lindon, P.E. Assist. State Water Engineer
“Large sewer pipes efficiently move wastewater away from the sources toward treatment plants, circumventing the historical surface stream system in between. Pavement and pumps, under-drains and storm sewers protect the subdivisions and development built in the wetlands and whisk runoff away, out-of-sight and out-of-mind. Streams are put in pipes, ditches are abandoned, and natural channels are made into plazas and parking lots. Natural drainage from our basin is reduced to a trickle at times. Water quantity and quality have been diminished. The water has been subdued: the meadow no longer fills in the spring, and the streams no longer flow in the summer.”

Also See December 18 Part 2 and 31 Part 3 at http://www.silverspringscommunity.com/utilities/water/

2011 July 5 SSSF Board Meeting:  Underdrain: Rick Krebs discussed the underdrain and there currently is a water seepage issue at 1418 Willow Lane (Odernheimer) located next to Ranch Place wetlands.  Krebs and Bill Noland have reviewed and observed the water seepage and met on-site with a representative of Mountain Regional Water. The seepage could be a number of things so some investigative work was performed to see if we could find any evidence of a culinary waterline leak or an artesian spring. No leak was found but we did find two access manholes for the underdrain system. The plan is to go forward and clean and TV the underdrain line in the area of the water seepage. That way the line will be located and cleaned to assure it is functioning properly.  We will also find out if the seepage issue is related to the underdrain system, an artesian spring, or the wetlands. Currently, the water seepage poses no problems to surrounding properties.

President Fuller discussed insurance options for the underdrain system [this incomplete system was abandoned by vote of the property owners when the county storm drains, sewer lines, and drainage ditches were completed. Also the underdrain was installed on our individual private property therefore it was abandoned because its function siphons off tree and landscape water.] The insurance company is reluctant to insure the association against possible underdrain-caused damage since the HOA does not  “own” the system. Even if the HOA took ownership of the system, the insurance would be very expensive.  The board discussed the issue and feels we are addressing problems that arise and are making an effort to locate and maintain the underdrain system. The HOA will continue to perform preventative maintenance and build reserves in the budget to handle underdrain problems. [In 1985 the SSSFHOA property owners’ majority voted to abandon the underdrain system.  This vote is ignored by the proponents of the underdrain, again disenfranchising the majority of property owners.]
 
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